Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

Posted by Matt in March 18th, 2008

In the United States, the two groups that most ardently support Israel are Jews and evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Jewish support is easy to explain, but why should certain Christians, most of them politically quite conservative, be so devoted to Israel? There is a second puzzle: despite their support for a Jewish state, evangelical and fundamentalist Christians are disliked by many Jews. And a third: a large fraction of African-Americans are hostile to Israel and critical of Jews, yet Jewish voters regard blacks as their natural allies.

Map for Jerusalem, Israel

[Countries link to CIA Factbook. States link to Wikipedia.]

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1959. JLRichardson said,

March 18th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

Very interesting article. On the issue between Jews and African-Americans I found it interesting that the writer completely failed to mention one important facet to this part of his article. After talking with some African-American friends about this I can offer two observations. Many African-Americans feel that many Jews (not all or most) but many rode to political power on the back of the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s. Then after having achieved that power they promptly turned their back on Black Americans. Another point was the cozy relationship that existed between Israel and the Aparthied South African government. Amazing that the author didn’t even mention this aspect in his writings. To sum up many Black Americans feel that Jews used them and then betrayed them. One lady told me that even though she has more Jewish friends than Black friends she felt that Jews too easily took a paternalistic attitude toward Black Americans.
On Christians and Jews…I grew up as a Southern Baptist being taught that Jews were God’s Chosen People. I seem to remember (since I haven’t been to Church in many years) that when Jesus returned the Jews were all going to be converted to Christianity. To me this is now a bunch of nonsense. I can fully understand anyone not liking some faith that plans on forcible conversion. I am absolutely convinced that many of these Fundamentalist Christians are both pro Israel and Anti-Semitic all at the same time. Surely many of these Fundamentalists picture themselves as future Angels standing with a sword in their hand over the necks of those who need forcible conversion following the Rapture. It’s perfectly understandable why they are not liked by the future convertees. I wouldn’t like them either.

1964. drsanto said,

March 18th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

‘Surely many of these Fundamentalists picture themselves as future Angels standing with a sword in their hand over the necks of those who need forcible conversion following the Rapture.’

What???

I am a fundamentalist Christian and self-descibed Zionist. What you are saying is completely foreign to me and I would chance speaking for 99% of the other Christian fundamentalists by saying it’s foreign to them, too…

As an “Issac” Patriarch of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ), I can tell you that I (we) believe our blessings are directly related to our love and support for Israel, who is beloved of G-D despite her general unbelief and lack of trust in Him…

Forced conversions at the end of the sword are the hallmark of another faith, not ours.

I do not mean to be rude, JLRichardson, but once again your argument is irrational and even offensive. It is unfortunate that you seem to keep aiming at the wrong targets…

DRS

1965. drsanto said,

March 18th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

O’ Yisrael~ trust in Him, and no other (not even the U.S., which has forsaken the Holy)…

The I AM is your strength and your hope.

Remember the hosts of the King of Assyria, Sennacherib~ DO NOT BE AFRAID.
The land that you sit on (and much, much more) is yours, promised by Him.

Remember Zephaniah, who said in our book (2:4) “For Gaza shall be forsaken and Ashkelon a desolation:”

Remember that the Temple Mount, previously the threshing floor of Ornan, was purchased by King David for 600 shekels of gold by weight according to our book of Chronicles 21:18-22:5. The bill of sale is written for all who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Remember the Kings of Persia, Cyrus (in our book 2nd Chronicles, 36) and Artaxerxes (Ezra Chapter 7, in our book), who were called by the LORD to allow the sons of Judah to build a temple for Him in Jerusalem.

Remember the Prophet Zecharia, who said in our book (8:7-8)
7: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country (in Hebrew, the country of the going down of the sun);
8: And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their G-d, in truth and in righteousness”.

This servant reminds you of a Psalm, in our book 119:71- “It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes”

O’ Israel, the LORD our G-D is one.

DRS

1968. JLRichardson said,

March 19th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Hi drsanto

glad to hear that your religion does not believe in “forcible conversion”. That’s a relief. I know some do. I seem to remember another brain dead conservative “Ann Coulter” who spouted off at the mouth before her brain was engaged and said something to the effect that “the US should invade and overthrow all the Muslim countries and forcibly convert them to Christianity”. Do you happen to know just what branch of “christianity” she claims to be a member of????? She is typical of so many Bush supporters who call themselves Christian and Conservative. Her mouth opens for business hours before her brain even wakes up.
So! I know there are some Christians out there who claim to support Israel and who are just waiting to convert Jews whether they want conversion or not.

1969. JLRichardson said,

March 19th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Hi drsanto
I just took the time to go back over some of the letters on a couple of these columns. I noticed that you quote a bit of Biblical scripture. That is good. But in addition to Scripture it would surely be a good idea to read some nonbiblical history of the Middle East. I would suggest to start with
1. Flavius Josephus..”History of the Jewish
War”
2. Michael Grants “History of Ancient Israel”
and “History of Rome”
3. Durant’s “Caesar & Christ”
4. Mary Renaults books on Alexander The Great
and Persia
5. Google the following. You will learn much
“Iran Bourse” the threat to the dollar
“Mosul Haifa Pipeline”
“Iran Sunburn Missile” & “Yakonts Missile”

The Bible is great reading but not the best source of history of the Middle East.
Also check out these other websites
1. “Antiwar.com”
2. “Globalresearch.ca”
3. “Atimes.com”
4. “Geostrategymap.com”
It has taken me an awful lot of reading and a lot of time to find out what this administration is really up to but if you start now you too will find out is really going on. Especially research about the energy resources around the Caspian Sea and the pipelines that Bush/Cheny want to control.
You’ll have your eyes opened then.
Good Luck,

1972. drsanto said,

March 19th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

RE: Ann Coulter- I think she just likes jerking liberal’s chains… Ha Ha…

RE: read some nonbiblical history of the Middle East- You make the assumption that I do not. I am interested in reading Josephus, just haven’t done so yet. I finished reading Michael Grant’s “The Fall of the Roman Empire” a couple weeks ago. Also, I’m quite comfortable in the extensive knowledge and understanding I’ve already aquired regarding the history of the world at this time and from various sources.

Due to my current life circumstances, I’m more interested in Autobiographies right now. Currently reading “Lincoln on Leadership” now and will probably read John Adams or Franklin next…

RE: Google- I’ve stopped using Google. Tired of their far, far left stance, anti-U.S. biases and their cow-towing to China censors.

I’m familiar with the subjects of a couple of the subjects you suggested. I’ll be frank; I’m completely “for” war with Iran and believe that Iraq was a staging ground to prepare for Iran.

RE: The Bible is great reading but not the best source of history of the Middle East.- I apologize if this comes across rude, but you are simply mistaken. Modern scientists ignore the Bible and prove the wisdom of scripture in the saying~ “Professing themselves wise, they become fools.” Time and again men’s books have to be revised when the Bible’s truths are uncovered by archeology and true science. I trust the scripture more than any other book.

RE: Other sites- I read Asia Times all the time but I must admit it bothers me how much it’s a mouthpiece for anti-american spew; particularily, Pepe Escobar and Tom Engelhard.
Nevertheless, I have interest in the World at large and am able to sift the wheat from the chaff, so to speak…

Regarding Geostrategymap, I sometimes read that too, but Stroup seems far too quick to dismiss positive U.S. developments. It’s really one-sided.

RE: Youâ€™ll have your eyes opened then.- I’m sure it’s not really intentional, but you insult me by your patronizing.

As you felt inclined to share a few sites with me, I would suggest a few sites with you:
http://www.geostrategy-direct.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/
http://www.debka.com/
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/
http://www.pinr.com/

RE: Bush and Cheney- I’m going to risk making a suggestion~ forget about your obsession regarding Bush and Cheney. You are intelligent, but seem “stuck” and have greater potential than you are currently using.

DRS

1974. JLRichardson said,

March 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Hi drsanto
I’ll check out these sites you listed. Some sound familiar so I’ve probably already read some stuff on them. I believe in studying and learning everything I possibly can..I can’t get enough of it.
I’m bothered that you actually want WAR WITH IRAN…I cannot possibly imagine anyone actually wanting WAR against any country. Who do you think is going to be fighting and dying in that war? Are you planning to sign up yourself? I am a Viet Nam Vet..as is my brother. I can tell you WAR IS HELL. I lost my paternal Grandfather..sunk on the SS Cudahy by a German UBoat just before I was born.
Why do you want war? The conflict could easily spread out of control into a Third World War and become Nuclear. I’m sorry, but your wanting WAR scares ME..it sounds like madness.
My God! are all Bush supporters in favor of WAR. May God help us if that is so.
Those who believe in war and want it should be willing to go fight it. Unfortunately most Bush people including the Neo-Cons are all good talkers of War but they themselves CHICKENED OUT…During Viet Nam Cheney had “better things to do”..Bush served on a barstool pretending to be a combat pilot.
Are you sure you want war with Iran? Do you believe Bush and Cheney could guide this country through such a War? Would you follow them into combat?

1976. drsanto said,

March 21st, 2008 at 1:43 am

I can appreciate your not understanding why I would want war with Iran, or any country for that matter… However, I believe “Allah” is a false god, “Mohammad” a false prophet and Mullah Omar is (quite likely) Dajjal~ or the anti-Christ. I realize that Mullah Omar is Sunni, but bin Laden refers to him as “the emir of the faithful” and he has worn the cloak of Mohammad; this has MUCH greater significance in the East than it does in the West. Saad Bin Laden is in Iran and 2 + 2 = 4. It is only a matter of time before the sects converge if not in beliefs, in tactics and warfare; just look at Iran’s support of Hamas and the number of philistinians in the area of Israel that are converting from Sunni to Shiite…

RE: Who do you think is going to be fighting and dying in that war?- General Patton said it best; (paraphrased) “no one ever won a war by dying for his country, but by making the other poor son of a bitch die for his.”

RE: Are you planning to sign up yourself? - Shortly before a draft. I’m already preparing and have been studying previous (historical, civil, regional and world) wars for strategy, tactics and frame of reference. However, due to my physical limitations coupled with my other strengths, it would be unlikely for me to be involved in street to street combat. Nevertheless, I would definitely expect to serve a supporting role in the Combat zone.

RE: The conflict could easily spread out of control into a Third World War and become Nuclear.- WHEN Iran acquires nuclear weapons, their very boisterous threats will take on an entirely different perspective. I’d prefer not to wait until that time.

RE: My God! are all Bush supporters in favor of WAR.- There you go again, making an a** out of you and me again ~ assuming I support Bush.

RE: Do you believe Bush and Cheney - There you go again, focusing on Bush and Cheney; let it go…

RE: Would you follow them into combat?- As if they would be in combat! But… the truth is that it would be unlikely I would go to war for any man, I fight (even now) for an idea or personal belief…

DRS

1977. JLRichardson said,

March 21st, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Hi drsanto
I guess we have to stop meeting like this. People are going to start gossiping.
Only a couple of points. You said you stopped using Google because of its “left stance” and “anti US bias”…that’s strange! Really strange. I thought Google was only a search engine. I never noticed any bias by it at all.
On War Figting..I just can’t help but find it strange that someone who quotes the Bible and believes that stuff would be in favor of war, violence, death of innocent people etc. Just think of all the innocent women and children who die in war. Is that what Jesus taught? I don’t remember any of that in Sunday School. I do remember forgiveness, love, kindness, generosity etc. It seems Christianity has changed in the last few years..probably with the election of George Bush. I wouldn’t want to judge too quickly but he just might be the Anti-Christ. Certainly Cheney seems a bit like the Devil.
It’s too bad that your physical limitations will limit your ability to go into combat. You’re going to miss out on so much. I’ll wager that a lot of those who support war with Iran are going to have many of those same limitations. You will all no doubt be working behind the lines in some office, hopefully with air conditioning..What a pity!!!
Do me a favor…after the War gets going and you’ve served a tour of duty I’d very much like to hear from you to hear all about your adventures. Do you think you might kill someone yourself? It might be a good idea to keep a journal of some sort.

1978. drsanto said,

March 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 am

RE: I never noticed any bias by it at all.- Riiighhht… While celebrating the various and even odd holidays of communist and non-communist countries, Google ignored Memorial Day, Veteran’s Day and Christmas in the Country that gave them life. Additionally, it continually surpresses criticism of “left-wing” candidates while promoting criticism of “right-wing” candidates.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=44489

RE: On War Fighting and the Bible- Read Ecclesiastes, Chapter 3, verses 1-8. There is a time for war and a time for peace. Also, throughout the 1st Testament, G-d called the tribes to war against an enemy for His purposes and in some cases, to obliterate the enemy completely (man, woman, child and beast). I understand how a non-believer might view something like this, however, I offer no apology or excuse. Your exception to this harsh reality isn’t with me, it’s with Him~ so take it up with him. I trust G-d and have learned from my own life experiences that disobedience with His will and His purpose opens the door for evil. In fact, the wars the world are fighting now are because of disobedience with His earlier commands to utterly destroy the enemy…

RE: probably with the election of George Bush- There you go with Bush / Cheney again. You really should seek therapy. My beliefs (and the beliefs of millions of other Americans) were formed before Bush got into office. I did vote for Bush 2x, but feel almost completely betrayed by him on a number of things… One thing good about him I will say… As much as I felt that he betrayed my beliefs, I believe he did so reaching out to the other side. He tried to be a President to both sides and that (I believe) was admirable, even if it meant that he supported things I abhorred. In the end though, the left would never take his hand so he lost the respect and support of his own base. Pity.

RE: On my fighting in war- Don’t patronize me. You’ve no idea what my physical disability is nor do you know what I am doing NOW to support our efforts.

DRS

1979. drsanto said,

March 22nd, 2008 at 12:01 pm

We’ve gone way off-topic and it’s pretty much turned into a spat between you and I.

Let’s leave it alone…

DRS

2011. JLRichardson said,

March 29th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

In revisiting this topic I want to point out to drsanto who said that he was a fundamentalist and disagreed completely with my observation that Christian Fundamentalists are both Pro Israel and Anti-Semitic all at the same time. It is apparent that “Christian Fundamentalists” DO indeed plan on the forcible conversion of Jewish people to Christianity at the “rapture”.
DRSANTO…disagreed completely with this and said that 99% do not believe this….
WELL..if you were to go to GOOGLE and type in “(hagee mccain armageddon jews)” there is OVERWHELMING information on this topic.
The insane, idiotic, stupid beyond all belief, major Christian Fundamentalist, the famous Reverand Hagee whose mouth like most Christian Fundamentalists operates without a brain does indeed believe this incredible crap.
Those Christian Fundamentalists who say they never heard this stuff are either deaf or stupid. Reverand Hagee is probably the most famous Fundamentalist in the country today. It is frightening that so many Americans buy into this idiotic nonsense…it is terrifying that he backs John McCainiac. John McCainiac actually wants his backing if anyone can believe this insanity. These idiots want to start Armageddon thinking they can speed up God’s timetable for humanity. They actually WANT NUCLEAR WAR. They then plan to forcibly convert Jews and anyone else to convert to Christianity. JOHN MCCAINIAC CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR THE NUCLEAR BUTTON OR WE ARE ALL DEAD MEN. He is known to have a temper.
drsanto….since you are a Christian Fundamentalist (your own words) please do some research on Fundamentalism to find out what you believe.

2013. JLRichardson said,

March 29th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

AGAIN;;; What got me onto this topic again was an article a few days ago about Reverend Hagee endorsing John McCainiac and McCainiac actually seeking this endorsement. It is incredible that so much news time was invested in Obama and his friendship with Minister Wright, his church’s leader, while no one seemed to pay any attention at all to the link between John McCainiac and Reverend Hagee. The entire World should be paying attention to this idiot FUNDAMENTALIST PREACHER. He has an enormous following including one of my own relatives. This man is a danger to everyone if he is allowed to influence anyone in the White House. He “honest to God” believes that he will have a hand at the Rapture (when Jesus is supposed to return) in forcibly converting unbelieving Jews to accept Christ. He believes that Jews are to be slaughtered and that Hitler was God’s instrument. Google….(hagee mccain armageddon jews) and read the thoughts of this idot of all idiots. God only knows what he plans to do with Muslims…(probably slaughter them all) or Hindus or Buddhists or horror of horror,,,Atheists and homosexuals..(they’re going to be burned in some lake of fire).
It is terrifying that he has such a following. It makes me believe that many Americans have taken leave of all their senses. Christianity has sure changed since I was in Sunday School.
America has got to find out about his alliance with John McCainiac and what they might be up to. They want to start a World War…THEY MUST BE STOPPED BEFORE IT IS TOOOOOO LATE.

2015. JLRichardson said,

March 30th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

Once Again…In reading back over these last two comments I noticed I used the word FUNDAMENTALIST in referring to the famous Reverand Hagee. He is also an EVANGELICAL.
The two terms Fundamentalist and Evangelical
go hand in hand. If there is a difference I cannot find it. In any case people like Reverand Hagee should be exposed to the nation for the danger they pose.